$25 a week? Labour grilled on public transport savings claim

Labour's flagship public transport fare cap is drawing fresh scrutiny this morning, as MP Tangi Utikere remains pressed on headline figures behind a policy the party still claims will save the "average" rider $25 a week.

The policy, announced by Labour leader Chris Hipkins on Tuesday, would cap weekly public transport spending at $20 in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, and $10 elsewhere. Once a commuter hits the cap, every additional trip that week is free.

Under questioning on Q+A, Utikere struggled to reconcile the policy's central claims. He said the savings wouldn't flow to everyone every week, but that many would still benefit.

"Hundreds of thousands of people will benefit," he said, pointing to the roughly 1.3 million people who take a public transport trip over the course of a year.

Pressed on the apparent gap between the policy's $65 million cost and its headline savings, Utikere conceded the benefits would not reach hundreds of thousands of people every week, but rather at some point over the year as they used the network.

Asked directly by Q+A host Jack Tame whether that was the key caveat, he said only: "Well, when they use the public transport system."

The party puts the average savings at around $25 a week - more than $1200 a year - with Auckland commuters saving $30, Wellington $25, and Christchurch $10. Smaller centres range from $11 in Gisborne to $33 across Palmerston North and Whanganui.

The Labour Party said the figures were averages only and stressed that "actual savings will vary by route and how often someone travels".

Utikere was pressed on who stood to gain the most from the universal subsidy, with some of the country's wealthiest commuters appearing among the biggest winners.

Tame raised Wellington's East-by-West ferry, which links the affluent suburb of Eastbourne to the central city.

A 10-trip weekly concession on that route costs $110, meaning the policy would subsidise $90 of a commuter's weekly travel once the $20 cap kicks in. Asked repeatedly whether that represented good value for taxpayers, Utikere did not directly answer.

"What's really important with this policy is that it's able to be rolled out — and where you live, you're able to take the ferry or the bus or the train to get you from A to B, and if it's covered by the fare cap, then that's a good thing," he said.

"I accept that there'll be some people who are able to benefit a little bit more.

"There are some that are able to benefit perhaps a little bit less, but at the end of the day, this is real cost-of-living relief for households who need that right now."

Utikere also confirmed he had not read Ministry of Transport advice, released in March, which considered the impact of broad fare subsidies.

That advice stated officials "do not recommend broad fare subsidies as a support measure", and warned broad subsidies was "clearly inefficient, and will result in many people who do not need support with their transport costs receiving it".

Utikere also faced questions over how the policy would interact with existing fare caps.

Auckland currently caps weekly fares at $50, and Christchurch at about $30, and under Labour, councils would be reimbursed for the difference down to the new $20 cap.

According to reporting by Newsroom on Thursday, Labour's costings lean heavily on Auckland Transport modelling done in 2023 before the city implemented its own cap.

That modelling looked at a $20 weekly cap and predicted a 6% lift in patronage.

It found the cap would cut farebox revenue by $16.4m a year. But extra revenue from new trips was put at $12.9m, leaving an actual cost of just $3.5m. Newsroom reports transport officials' own preferred level at the time was higher, at $29 a week.

Speaking to Q+A, asked what would stop councils from dropping their own caps once central government had promised the public cheaper fares, Utikere said it was important councils did not use the policy to, in his words, "effectively rort the system".

"I'd like to think that people are sensible around this. This is not an opportunity for councils to basically forego the responsibilities that they have at the moment," he said.

"Central government needs to work with local government to ensure that this is rolled out effectively."

Pressed on whether Labour could compel councils to keep their caps, the party's transport spokesperson said he would need to "have conversations first around the implementation".

On where the $65 million for Labour's policy would come from, with the land transport fund under pressure for years, Utikere pointed to potential savings in road maintenance and a reassessment of the Government's roads building programme.

He said money was being wasted filling the same potholes several times over, but insisted road maintenance would not be compromised.

"Some of those potholes, actually the same potholes being filled two, three, four, five times," he said. "People expect you to go, you fill it once, that's it, it's done right first time.

"So, there will be some savings in that area."

Utikere was also questioned about the first stage of the Government's Northland Expressway - the Warkworth to Te Hana road, a 26km, four-lane highway taking in an 850m twin-bore tunnel through Dome Valley, north of Auckland.

He indicated Labour would not stand in the way of the project, saying it would "create huge benefit and opportunity for the region up there".

"We're not into cancelling a whole pile of stuff," he said.

"There are roads of national significance where they stack up. They do need to happen, might not happen as quickly as some might like, because of the reprioritisation and sort of reassessment that needs to happen naturally."

The road's full cost and whether it stacks up economically have been kept from the public throughout the procurement process, drawing scrutiny.

Asked to be clear on whether Labour would continue the project if the Government signed a public-private partnership and it was under way, Utikere said: "We've been very clear, where contracts are in place, where funding is in place, where roads are under delivery, or projects are under delivery, that we will look forward to honouring those."

Pressed on whether Labour would revive policies scrapped under the current government, Utikere was non-committal across the board.

The opposition party has repeatedly criticised the coalition for scrapping its initiatives.

Asked whether a Labour government would reinstate the clean car discount - the axed electric vehicle purchase subsidy - Utikere said it was not a priority.

"It's not on my immediate sort of radar for reintroduction," he said.

"It was great at the time. Our focus is basically on providing cost-of-living support."

On whether the Auckland light rail project would be resurrected, he again pointed back to the fare cap. "I think there are a number of different options out there," he said.

"Jack, our focus at the moment is on this fantastic fare capping opportunity, because we really do think that's going to make a huge difference."

Asked whether Labour would change road user charge settings for EVs or alter the clean car standard, and where decarbonisation sat among its transport priorities, Utikere said only that the fare cap was the focus for now.

"You'll have to watch this space," he said. "Obviously, we want to encourage decarbonisation ... but you'll just have to wait for a policy to roll out."

Q+A with Jack Tame is made with the support of New Zealand On Air