Richie Mo’unga is on the phone to 1News from Kagoshima, a city near the southern tip of Japan about seven hours south of Tokyo on the bullet train, and is considering a question about next year’s All Blacks’ tour of South Africa.
Currently, Mo’unga, who is returning home in the middle of next year to make himself available for the World Cup in 2027, will not be eligible for what will be an epic trip to the Republic in August and September.
It is a tour that will feature three Tests against the Springboks - with one more to be played at a neutral venue - and four matches against South Africa’s top club sides.
And it is one that would appear to be perfectly suited to preparing Mo’unga, the incumbent No.10 when he last played for the All Blacks at the 2023 World Cup, for what is to come at the next one in Australia.
But New Zealand Rugby’s self-imposed rules dictate he must play a full season for Canterbury in the NPC before he is eligible again, unless there is an injury to Beauden Barrett or Damian McKenzie, his two positional rivals.
What makes the whole business more difficult to understand is that NZ rugby boss Mark Robinson was part of a delegation including head coach Scott Robertson which investigated the possibility of Mo'unga cutting his time a year short in Japan to return to New Zealand rugby.
It came to nothing and Mo’unga, who is preparing for what may be his third and final season in Japan, is in the south of the country on a training camp with Toshiba, the club he has helped to two consecutive League One championships.
Speaking during the week of the All Blacks’ Test against Ireland in Chicago, which they won after an resilient comeback, Mo’unga speaks impressively on a range of subjects. Among them, why he signed such a short contract with NZ Rugby (two years), the state of his 31-year-old body, and why it is “hard” to read stories about him supposedly being an automatic selection at No.10 for New Zealand after what will be three years away.
But, first that question on the highly-anticipated “Greatest Rivalry” tour which will take the place of the Rugby Championship in 2026.
“A lot of All Blacks’ fans,” Mo’unga is asked, “would love to see you on that tour of South Africa next year but you may be playing for Canterbury in the NPC. How do you reconcile that?”
Clearly not wanting to offend anyone, including Canterbury’s fans or his potential future coaches and teammates, he responds carefully.
“Any time you get the opportunity to represent your province is an honour,” he says. “I grew up watching and playing for Canterbury and the Crusaders in some great teams.
“I am excited to play for Canterbury. Is it what I want to do or why I am coming back to New Zealand? No, it’s not. That South African tour is actually something I’d love to be part of.
“I get the rules that have been put in place and I guess I have to come to grips with that is what it is. But yeah, the South African tour would be something special to be part of.”
He adds: “Hey, we’ll see what happens. I’m still very optimistic that something might happen and I might be available for that tour. So, I’m still hopeful.”
His optimism and hope will be shared by his many supporters who see him as the only man capable of driving the All Blacks to a fourth World Cup victory after two years of the Robertson campaign which has been notable for inconsistency.
Barrett, the current top All Blacks’ first-five, will be 35 in May and, for all his talent and experience (144 Tests), cannot control Tests like he used to. And McKenzie, who will turn 31 in April, proved once again on the recent Grand Slam tour that he is best used as an impact player in the biggest Tests.
Not surprisingly for a man on his way back from the international wilderness, such talk does not sit well with Mo’unga as he explains when asked about linking again with head coach Robertson, a man with whom he enjoyed so much success (seven straight titles) at the Crusaders.
“I’m going home to give myself the best chance to play for the All Blacks again but I understand it’s not a given,” he says. “There is still so much to do and prove that I can still be in that jersey. That’s where my head is at.
“I really want to get a good season under my belt here. Going back, it’s about earning the respect of current All Blacks and current All Black management and letting them know I’m still capable of playing some good rugby.
“It's hard seeing articles when I re-signed with New Zealand Rugby about being possibly being the No.10 for the All Blacks or who’s in the way, blah, blah, blah.
“I have no expectation of walking straight back into that team. I’m willing to play a whole season for Canterbury to earn the right. That’s my mentality. I’m not just walking in… I really want to earn the respect and trust – because the team has changed so much.
“There are so many players there I’ve never played with and some I’ve never played Super Rugby against.
“That’s my drive. But going back to your question, yeah, I’m excited about seeing Razor and the management. I spent a lot of time with them, so I can’t wait.”
Mo’unga’s remarkable run of success at Canterbury and the Crusaders has continued at Toshiba under Todd Blackadder, the former All Blacks captain and Crusaders head coach.
Which raises the question: where is he at physically compared with when he left the All Blacks after that heart-breaking World Cup final defeat to South Africa at the Stade de France in November, 2023?
“Yeah, that’s a tough one,” Mo’unga replies.
“I guess the areas I’ve grown are areas [that] aren’t really to do with my [playing] abilities. I’ve become more of a leader.
“I’ve had to step up in a lot of different areas off the rugby field and that’s to try to lead this team in terms of the way the schedule is run or what our game plan looks like for the first six weeks; how I can make our halfbacks better or what skills our team need to be better at to try to be competitive this season.
“I’d say those areas are the most important when you come to League One because they can make the biggest differences and how your team is feeling mindset-wise when you’re heading into a game.
“I’m working with our forwards a lot more than I usually would back in New Zealand because sometimes lineouts and scrums struggle here so you come up with plans to help that and find ways around it.
“It has taught me a lot about rugby and that there is not just one way to play it.
“Other than that, I’m feeling pretty good, man. I’m feeling pretty fit.”
In reinforcing his point ahead of a campaign which features six pre-season matches (he will play in the last two), and which officially starts on December 12, Mo’unga adds: “Physically, apart from breaking my hand last year in the semifinal, I haven’t had any injuries since I’ve been in Japan.
“I haven’t had any niggles. The body has been good – I don’t know if that’s the rugby I’m playing now or whether it’s because we get more rest and bye weeks. But my body is holding up really well.”
Mo’unga, who will turn 32 in May, has played 56 Tests after making his All Blacks debut in 2017 but only asserted himself as the All Blacks’ best No.10 during the last couple of years of his international career.
He was in and out of the starting line-up under previous coaches Sir Steve Hansen and Ian Foster, which almost certainly helped lead to his announcement late in 2022 that he was heading to Japan with his family for three years.
The time away has broadened his horizons off the field and opened his eyes to new ways of playing on it.
The style and season structure has also helped him physically – teams in League One will have six byes this season. Every team has a bye after three matches which means players routinely get through 80 minutes a week.
Widely known as an unflappable and mature player, Mo’unga says taking control of a team featuring former internationals such as All Black Shannon Frizell, Fijian Seta Tamanivalu and Japan captain Michael Leitch, plus local players, has helped grow his game.
The role of the modern No.10
Asked whether he felt the role of an international No.10 had changed during his time away, Mo’unga replies: “In Japan, the No.10 is so crucial as a game driver and playmaker. It’s imperative to have a controlled, high-IQ No.10 in Japan.
“You know the right things to play in terms of scoreboard pressure and time, the skillset your own team has. It makes a big difference.
“I guess around the world, it’s an important position but what we’ve seen is 10 is probably sharing the role more with the No.9.
“A long time ago 10 would be the out and out game driver. But if you look at really good international teams like Ireland and France, that responsibility is shared with the 9 and he has more on his shoulders.”
Changing topics, he is asked why he signed such a short contract with NZ Rugby when a longer term could have included a sabbatical clause which would have allowed him to spend another season in Japan or elsewhere without giving up his All Blacks’ spot.
“Some people may hate to hear me say this but it allows me to do what I feel like doing at that time,” Mo’unga replies. “At the time of finishing a World Cup, whatever the feeling is, or whatever the family situation… it allows me to be really flexible – and that’s all it is.
“I’m not saying I won’t stay in New Zealand post-2027, I’m not saying I didn’t sign [a longer contract] because I had something else teed up in Japan or somewhere else, it literally allows me to be flexible to decide what’s best for me and what’s best for my family.”
Christchurch-born and bred, Mo’unga, who has the original Crusaders’ emblem tattooed on a leg, is asked whether he could play for another Super Rugby team.
“At this point in my career, I don’t think I could play for any other team, unless I really had to,” he says.
“Canterbury is home and I grew up loving the team. Obviously, I played over 100 games for the Crusaders. I still watch all the Crusaders games when I’m in Japan and keep in touch closely with the boys and always wish them well.
“In another world or another life, Moana Pasifika would have been great. It would have been a cool story. But going home was to try to give myself chance to play at a World Cup and playing for the Crusaders does that for me.
“Going home also is to spend more time with my mum and for my kids to be with their family.”
Before the conversation concludes, Mo’unga is asked how he feels the All Blacks will go on their Grand Slam tour (they go on to beat Ireland, Scotland and Wales but lose to England).
“I just saw the team named to play Ireland and I’m excited about this game,” he says.
“I think they’ll do well. We’ll get more of a gauge after this tour because it’s one of the hardest they’ve had in ages against some real quality sides. It will be tough but I’m hoping they can go through and win all their games.
“It would be awesome to see some of that consistency on this tour.”
Right now, it’s time for breakfast before a field session and gym training in the afternoon.
“It’s good, I’ve been holding tackle bags for the last couple of weeks,” Mo’unga says. “I’ve got to get up for the boys and get them prepared for this weekend.”
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