Senior National MP Chris Bishop has been quizzed following the urgent National Party leadership vote in Wellington yesterday.
Last night Senior National MP Chris Penk announced he would leave Parliament at November's election after being stripped of his ministerial portfolios over an unsuccessful leadership challenge.
Days of speculation led to the urgent National caucus meeting, with Christopher Luxon emerging hours later with his leadership intact and saying he had the full support of his caucus. It was the second time National's MPs had debated Luxon's position this year.
Speaking to Breakfast, Bishop said he backed Luxon and squarely put the meeting down to the leadership threat from Penk.
"It's not about support for me, or anybody else. It's about support for the Prime Minister, and the caucus voted on confidence in the prime minister's leadership, and he won that vote. I believe decisively, and we are supporting him 100% to lead us into the election."
Breakfast host Tova O'Brien asked: "This is an indictment on you and Erica Stanford, though, isn't it? You couldn't get your proverbial together, and it's yet another failed coup?"
To which Bishop said he was "not particularly fixated on that at all, to be honest".
He described the meeting as "frustrating", saying he wanted to focus on his portfolios less than 90 days out from the election.
"It's frustrating, and we know why that happened now. It's because, as the Prime Minister has said, there was a leadership threat from Chris Penk."
"Do you know that for sure?" O'Brien asked.
"He [Luxon] decided to call a caucus meeting to put it to the test, bring it on, and the challenge from Chris Penk fizzled. There was a confidence vote; he won, and that's actually really all there is to it. It's as simple as that," Bishop said.
Labour spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said he was "not convinced by any of what Chris Bishop's just said, and I don't believe much of it either. And frankly, I don't think Kiwis will".
"The thing is that the prime minister stood there and said that his caucus backed him 100%. Well, that can't be true because then only a few moments later, he fired one of them. He wouldn't have called the meeting if they were there was 100% behind him," McAnulty said.
Bishop was then asked how he knew Chris Penk was the instigator, despite Penk's denials to media outside of Parliament yesterday morning.
He said: "I know he was the instigator, and the caucus know he was the instigator, and the prime minister knows he was the instigator."
O'Brien asked: "Did Chris Penk try to call you?"
"'I'm not going to, on live TV, divulge conversations I have with colleagues. I talk to people in the caucus and cabinet literally every day. So I'm not going to get into who called who and all that sort of stuff, but I'm telling you, I know what happened," he said.
"Chris Bishop, did you go into yesterday's caucus meeting thinking that you had the numbers?" O'Brien asked.
"I was surprised that the caucus meeting was called at all," he responded.
"To be honest, and I knew why it had been called, but I was surprised that we were doing it. I mean, it's an out-of-cycle caucus meeting. We sometimes meet during the recess weeks of Parliament, but we normally do it over Zoom. I know why the caucus meeting was called. I was a bit surprised by it, and obviously, you know, it's frustrating."
He said "Chris Penk launched a sort of quasi-leadership challenge, and so therefore, it's not conceivable that he could stay in the ministry, and so he [Luxon] basically sacked him, which is which I can totally understand him doing," Bishop said.
He clarified that the "quasi-leadership challenge" quote was "just a turn of phrase".
"Well, my point was it was a bit of an odd challenge from Chris P. I suppose that's my sort of what I was trying to indicate."
Breakfast approached both Luxon and Penk for comment - Luxon did not respond and Penk declined.
Is Chris Penk 'the fall guy'?
Political scientist Lara Greaves and former National Party advisor Ben Thomas speak about the challenges ahead for the National Party, less than three months out from the election. (Source: Breakfast)
Earlier, political scientist Lara Greaves and former National Party advisor Ben Thomas spoke to Breakfast about the challenges ahead for the party, less than three months out from the election.
Greaves said Penk’s sacking "opens up a safe National seat for someone like Paul Goldsmith".
"You know the list is looking pretty precarious for National, especially with all of this drama," she said.
Goldsmith runs in Epsom but has been unable to unseat ACT's David Seymour, while Penk holds the safe National seat of Kaipara Ki Mahurangi.
Thomas said "Christopher Luxon clearly signalled that he wants to move on from this, try to cauterize the issue".
"Nobody believes that Chris Penk was acting alone and there was no one on the grassy knoll, and so sacking Penk makes everybody just focus on the fact going 'is he the fall guy? How deep does this go?' as opposed to moving on, which is what they need to be doing less than 90 days out from an election," Thomas said.
O’Brien asked: “What does it say about Christopher Luxon that you can do this not once, but twice?"
Thomas responded that "Christopher Luxon has a kind of impenetrable self-confidence".
Greaves agreed, saying he had "amazing stickability".
“I wish I had that level of overconfidence, but at a certain point, like you're in there, what are you trying to do? What are you trying to govern with Winston Peters and David Seymour, with them taking more of your vote, is that what you're out to do?
"At a certain point, you know the caucus might back you to some extent, but you have to look at those preferred prime minister polls and really be thinking ‘is this really what New Zealanders want?'"
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