Leaders debate: Luxon, Hipkins fire up over cost of living, trust, racism

Christopher Luxon and Chris Hipkins have clashed over trustworthiness, racism and the cost of living in a fiery TVNZ leaders' debate, with a panel of undecided voters backing the Labour leader more than the National leader.

The standout moments from Luxon and Hipkins’ fiery leaders debate - Watch on TVNZ+

However it was hardly an outright win for the opposition leader, himself a former PM.

At the end of last night's 90-minute 1News Leaders Debate, 49% of the panel said Hipkins had won their vote, compared with 24% for Luxon. Another 27% remained undecided.

When asked during the debate who had performed best so far, about two-thirds of the panel picked Hipkins early on. That narrowed to 56% to 44% at the halfway mark.

The panel of nearly 100 voters was split roughly evenly between people who backed right and left-bloc parties at the last election. The result is not a scientific poll.

In the debate, Hipkins accused Luxon of "saying things that aren't true", while Luxon repeatedly accused Labour of making unfunded promises.

Speaking to reporters after the debate, Luxon played down the panel's verdict, saying it was "literally 100 people here in a studio".

"Frankly, I don't care. What it's really about is actually what happens on November 7th."

Hipkins said he was "pretty happy" with his performance.

The debate, moderated by Q+A presenter Jack Tame, came with a month to go until the November 7 election. Released earlier in the evening, the latest 1News Verian Poll has the two blocs almost neck and neck, leaving the Opportunity Party as kingmaker.

Throughout the debate, both Hipkins and Luxon were pushed to commitments on several issues, notably including extending the $50 weekly boost to the in-work tax credit for lower-income working families that is set to expire by April 2027.

Both Luxon and Hipkins ruled out raising GST, but stopped short of guaranteeing other existing taxes or charges wouldn't rise.

Hipkins also said Labour wanted to index benefits to both wages and inflation "as we can afford to do that", after first saying Labour had not made a clear commitment.

Luxon, pressed on why child poverty had risen since he promised three years ago to hit child poverty targets, he pointed to education.

"With a magic wand, if I could do one thing, it would actually be [to] make sure I've got the best education system in the world because that's how kids access high-paying jobs."

Hipkins said he supported phasing in a ban on bottom trawling, while Luxon said he was open to reviewing it - pointing to the $2 billion and 9000 jobs tied to the practice.

Asked when he had last changed his mind about something that mattered, Hipkins pointed to his U-turn on a capital gains tax. "I'm happy to own that," he said.

Luxon said he changed his mind when he received "good counsel, good advice", but could not offer a specific instance.

"I can't think of a policy example where I've done that," he said.

Luxon was also pressed on his claim three years ago his grocery shop cost $60 weekly.

He explained he was an "empty nester" who spent the week in Wellington, where he admitted he ate "pretty badly" with a "box of Frujus and a couple of bananas and some kiwifruit" covering mainly snacks.

Both leaders confirmed they had private health insurance, and both said they wished they had learned more te reo Māori.

In a moment of agreement, Luxon offered to work with Hipkins on regulating artificial intelligence (AI). Tame quipped that the "consensus box" on viewers' debate bingo cards was finally getting a stamp. Both said they already used AI for research purposes.

Asked whether New Zealanders were better off than three years ago, Luxon said they were "better off than they would have been if Chris had stayed in charge".

In response, Hipkins said viewers would be "at home shouting at the TV".

On record petrol prices, Luxon said the Government could not control the cost of fuel, which he said was being driven by "Donald Trump and this crazy war in Iran".

Luxon also said National's plan to break up supermarket giant Foodstuffs would hinge on the Commerce Commission's recommendation. "If they say no, we don't do it."

Both leaders agreed the tax system was unfair but their responses on how to make it fairer were far from aligned. Hipkins said capital gains were going untaxed, while Luxon said that, "we want people paying less tax, not more tax".

On health, Hipkins said Luxon was denying a crisis, while Luxon said outcomes were improving overall and Labour's free promised GP visits would clog up the system.

Hipkins responded bluntly: "If you are in denial about the true extent of the crisis in our hospitals, you are not the person to fix it."

Tensions flared again over race, with Hipkins saying he would sack "immediately" any minister in a government he led who expressed the "sort of racist sentiment" Luxon had put up with from coalition partner NZ First and Foreign Minister Winston Peters.

Luxon said he had called out racist comments from Peters and other political leaders. He then hit back with a string of Labour ministerial scandals, including ex-justice minister Kiri Allan and beleaguered politician Stuart Nash sharing Cabinet discussions with donors.

Asked whether race was a factor in health, Luxon said services should be based on needs, while Hipkins said it was a factor, pointing to Māori life expectancy being seven years lower.

Meanwhile on education, Luxon called Hipkins "without doubt" the worst education minister New Zealand had ever had, and accused him of a "great flip-flop" for now backing the school cell phone ban which his Government had instituted.

Hipkins said he would scrap the compulsory hour a day of reading, writing and maths as it currently stands, saying schools should decide how best to deliver the curriculum.

But he conceded Labour had been too slow to respond to youth offending after the pandemic. "I'll own that," he said. Luxon said ram raids were now down 85%. Hipkins also confirmed Labour would keep the gang patch ban, which it had initially opposed.

On Gaza, Hipkins said there was "an unfolding genocide" and New Zealand should already have recognised Palestine. Luxon said there were "very serious questions" but New Zealand should be guided by the international courts.

"If you want to uphold the rules-based system, you have to respect the rules-based system," said the National leader.

Both leaders later dodged a question on whether it was morally acceptable for one person to be a billionaire.

Earlier in a lighter moment, amid a quickfire round of yes-or-no questions, the pair were asked to choose between the All Blacks winning next year's Rugby World Cup and the Warriors winning the NRL premiership.

Hipkins protested that the choice was "impossible" before backing the Warriors, while Luxon went with the All Blacks.

Asked for their proudest Kiwi moments, Luxon chose meeting Ukrainian soldiers trained by Kiwi troops, calling it "the most emotional moment I've had as Prime Minister".

Hipkins pointed to the country's response to the March 15th mosque attacks, which he said was met "with dignity and with grace".