Felix Desmarais: Who's the loser in minor parties' debate?

Analysis: The TVNZ Multi-Party Debate showed the minor party leaders wanting of vision and strong policy platforms, instead descending into childish jibes, writes 1News political reporter Felix Desmarais.

Eight minutes.

Roughly the time it takes for light to travel from the sun to the Earth.

That’s how long it took in tonight’s 1News Multi-Party Debate for New Zealand First leader Winston Peters and ACT leader David Seymour to start bickering.

Green leader James Shaw cut to the chase after Peters’ and Seymour’s first round: “If you’re voting for National, this -” he gestured to Peters and Seymour, perhaps not coincidentally standing next to one another - “is what you’re voting for”.

Many voters have been wondering if that is indeed the case.

Peters was soon dismissing any notion a government he is part of is in any way unstable, after host Jack Tame put it to him all of his coalition deals had ended in either bitterness or acrimony.

He did not accept that was the case.

Viewers could have been forgiven for believing they were settling in for an evening of Peters and Seymour scrapping, clawing one another’s proverbial political eyes out. There was some of that, but the real rumpus came from the jibes and jabs between Shaw and Seymour - mostly driven by Shaw.

Shaw at times in this term could have been described as shrinking from some fights, particularly with partner Labour. Not tonight, and it made him the surprise standout of the debate, landing the bulk of the blows in an oddly charming, humorous style.

Early on, Shaw and Seymour could barely resist squabbling with one another, to the point Tame started desperately calling out “guys, guys”, like when your friends start fighting.

It culminated in a red-hot burn from Shaw: “Remember when I asked for your opinion, David? Yeah, neither do I.”

Of course there’s very little spectre of the Greens and ACT ever finding themselves in a three-way coalition of clashes, perhaps it’s just as well.

Seymour swung plenty of times himself, including saying he called Shaw “James Offshore - because he spends more time offshore talking to foreigners”.

In response, Shaw said: "David, you can say something stupid every once in a while but you are really abusing the privilege."

And later, after another Seymour interjection: “David, just taihoa for a minute”.

James Shaw did not come to play.

Minutes later, after Seymour’s fairly childish line “very quickly, please” to Shaw’s plea to contribute on the prison population: “Ugh, David, you know I’m starting to really realise that the people who can tolerate you are the real heroes here, you know that?”

Perhaps the audience happened to skew in his favour, but they met that quip with laughter and applause.

There were more barbs, also, between Peters and Seymour, including Peters suggesting Seymour “get some long trousers” and behave himself.

“Mr Luxon will expect you to do that as well, so get ready.”

Seymour snarled back: “Oh I will, we’ll send you a card.”

But those biggest lines of the night really came from Shaw.

The problem was, while the blows landed, they never came with meaty chasers on what his alternative was. But he was also not alone in that.

It would be fair for viewers to feel the leaders hadn’t really laid out their full spread of offerings.

But it did provide insight into dynamics - Shaw and Seymour can’t get along, but that’s neither here nor there.

Neither can Waititi and Peters, the former of which had a particularly quiet night, but it’s something to be reasonably expected given he recently lost his mother. And Waititi and Peters disagreeing shouldn’t rock anyone’s world. It’s unlikely the two would find themselves around the same Cabinet table. Not impossible, but unlikely.

But a likely duo can be found in Peters and Seymour, and given poll numbers, it’s likely they’re going to have to sit at the same lunch table more often in the future.

Claims of “strong and stable” government crumble at the vision of the two, who can barely look at each other, let alone last nine minutes without sniping.

Red or blue, left or right, that doesn’t bode well for anyone if it’s to be the case.

No one won, and only the public stands to lose.

Tellingly at the end, each leader was asked what they’d done to “lower the temperature” of divisive political debate. All struggled to answer well, and in a stroke of poetic irony, both Shaw and Seymour said they tried to play the ball not the person and avoid the personal.

After an evening of highly personal swipes.

Eight minutes might be enough time for sunlight to enlighten the Earth, but New Zealand voters can reasonably ask some minor party leaders why they aren’t lighting the way.