Things got heated during tonight's Kaupapa Māori Debate after the Green Party’s Marama Davidson called out ACT over their language around co-governance.
The hot-button issue of co-governance was brought up quickly by the Greens co-leader.
It came during a korero on housing, when moderator Maiki Sherman asked ACT’s Karen Chhour if her party would “continue to partner with iwi around housing?”.
She said yes, elaborating that it was “really important that we allow communities who know about what's good for their communities”.
“And if they’re producing good outcomes and were actually doing right by those communities, that they should still be happening.”
Some candidates performed better than others Tina Ngata said. (Source: 1News)
She called the programmes “fantastic”.
At their campaign launch, ACT leader David Seymour called for an “end to co-government”, saying they would push back on "revisionist interpretations" of the Treaty of Waitangi and "reorientating the public service towards a focus on equal opportunity".
Davidson commented on Chhour’s comments, saying she was “relieved to hear the ACT Party giving support for what has been the most significant Māori-led housing programme in any government”.
But she questioned why the party would support programmes with iwi when the current party line is to oppose co-governance.
“So why then, Karen, do you let your leader spout fear and ignorance about co-governance?”
A brief argument then ensued between the candidates, with Sherman needing to ring a bell to get them to stop.
Later on, when the topic of co-governance was revisited, Chhour said Davidson was “getting personal”.
“I think it was getting personal on someone who is not able to defend themselves or speak to it."
She said the party has always supported Treaty settlements, and it supports services for Māori.
“We can have the services for Māori. We can be devolving back to community organisations.”
Chhour said issues around co-governance are largely because “those conversations haven’t been done very well”.
“Communities are scared because they don't know what co-governance is.”
Davidson fired back at Chhour’s response saying: “None of us should be able to stand here and spout things our party does not support.”
When it came to ACT's claims about poor messaging, Davidson said it was clear what co-governance is.
“We know that co-governance is mahi tahi, that all that is.
"It is working now all around the motu for the betterment of everyone, Māori, mana whenua and tauiwi working together to protect our wetlands, to protect our health care – it’s already happening.”
Labour’s candidate in the debate, Willie Jackson, backed Davidson up, saying he’s “really proud” of what his party has done.
“Co-governance can work,” he proclaimed.
He blamed the ACT Party – not Karen Chhour herself – and New Zealand First for running a “strategy of fear” against it.
“It hasn’t been working because of the disgraceful strategy run by the ACT Party and Uncle Winston [Peters] and New Zealand First.”
A chat around the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which triggered the co-governance talks, started with John Tamihere being asked "was co-governance the end goal?”.
He explained that “co-governance is a halfway house for our Pākehā brothers and sisters that we consented to come and live here under the treaty with, to understand our rights and entitlements”.
When asked why National was walking away from it despite being in government at the time of the signing of the UNDRIP, National candidate Tama Potaka responded: “We’re really focused on needs and addressing needs, and no amount of co-governance bureaucracy out of Mangere [Willie Jackson] and Henderson [John Tamihere] is going to change the delivery of needs.”
When New Zealand First's Shane Jones spoke on the topic, he said: “I’ve had a gutsful of the iwi leaders group purporting to be the exclusive representative of all Māori."
He said it saddened him deeply “to place co-governance political authority [over] a new set of pipes to move pee and poo”.
“Something deeply ironic about that,” he finished.
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