A defence witness who spent 20 hours interviewing murder-accused Lauren Dickason has started giving evidence at her trial.
Forensic psychologist Ghazi Metoui wrote a 69-page report after seeing her on nine separate occasions. It is his opinion that the defences of infanticide and insanity are both available to the mother who killed her three daughters - six-year-old Liané and two-year-old twins Maya and Karla - in Timaru in September 2021.
He told the court when he does assessments for a homicide case he would usually only spend up to nine hours with the defendant.
"This was by the far the longest I've spent with a defendant at 20 hours."
Defence lawyer Anne Toohey asked: "And why did you spend so long with her?"
"It wasn't my plan when I went to meet with Mrs Dickason, I obviously knew there was a lot to discuss. The first time I saw her was mid-December, it was clear to me when I saw her, that a slow paced, gentle approach was probably gonna get me the furthest with her."
He read from his report on her psychiatric history.
"Ms Dickason reported that it was early May 2019, when the twins were approximately six months old and struggling in her mood and coping, that she had her first violent ideation towards the children. The targets on that occasion were her twin children and not Liané. She stated that her thoughts were not at all formed in terms of the specific violent act against the children, but she acknowledged 'a feeling that I wanted to hurt the twins.'
"She stated 'I had thoughts of it would be nice to not have the twins for a couple of days. I had thoughts of hurting them. I wanted them gone for a couple of days. I wanted a break from the train station going the whole day'," Metoui said.
"Ms Dickason acknowledged having suicidal thoughts but without a plan or prospect or acting on them saying 'I always thought I could never leave the kids behind, always the one thing that stopped me'.
"Ms Dickason stated she was deeply concerned by the thoughts that she had about hurting the children and felt immense shame and guilt for having such thoughts and that she was 'a failure'."
Under a heading he called 'Filicidal ideation' he read about a second time she had thoughts of harming the girls, on August 1, 2021.
"She stated that in that moment, and very 'out of the blue', she had thoughts of hurting her children. She stated that unlike her thoughts the previous year that were non-specific and general, on this occasion, she formed specific thoughts and vivid images against all of her children."
Metoui had asked her how she had felt about those violent thoughts at the time.
"She stated 'I felt disgusted at myself. Why am I thinking like this? It's terrifying me. Making me feel even worse about myself. Even when I had these thoughts I loved them even more'."
He asked her what stressors could have prompted these thoughts.
Dickason replied: "I felt like I was taking them away (by moving to New Zealand) from who they knew and loved and I was scared for them, for what lay ahead. Adjusting to a new school and country and routines and life without grandparents. I didn't know what New Zealand was gonna be like because I'd never been there before."
Dickason also told him about the third time she had thoughts of harming the girls, right before they left South Africa. "I had thoughts of doing what ended up happening… this devil on my shoulder came. This could be a way. I felt like a seed was planted that day."
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