The debate of consequences versus social support is starting to heat up as the country gets closer to election day in October, with law and order a central issue.
Yesterday, ACT announced its latest justice policy, which would see 17 year olds put back into the adult justice system — reversing a change it once supported.
Joining Breakfast this morning, ACT deputy leader Brooke van Velden and Green MP Chlöe Swarbrick offered their takes on the new policy.
For van Velden, stopping youth offending is about 'sending signals' to potential criminals that "there will be proper consequences for crime".
She said the current policy, implemented by National and ACT, hasn't yielded results — which is why it's switching back.
"That was wrong. What we've actually seen is that giving criminals kindness and more personal responsibility hasn't worked. Kindness hasn't worked.
"We need proper consequences for crime and to let these 17 year olds know you will actually face proper consequences."
The ACT MP believes current sentences for 17 year olds aren't strict enough, encouraging them to commit more crimes.
"We've got to take a hard line."
She thinks people are "taking advantage of the system" — offending until they turn 18 to avoid the justice system.
"I don't think that sends a good message to society, and I don't think it sends a good message to these young kids," she said.
The policy was heavily criticised by Swarbrick, who said it's made up of "soundbites" aiming to grab headlines in the media rather than being based in fact.
"The evidence, very clearly, is not there," she told Breakfast.
She brought up the Ministry of Justice's Youth Justice Indicators Report from April, which found the overall offending rate for children decreased by 63% between 2011/12 and 2021/22.
"We do need to deal with the facts when wanting to put into place public policy that will make people feel safer and genuinely achieve those outcomes."
Swarbrick said that while youth offending had trended downwards, those who are committing crimes tend to be offending more.
"That, to me, sends the signal that we need to be sending far more resources into supporting those young people in their lives."
The Auckland Central MP also told Breakfast she has a "fundamental frustration" with how issues like crime and truancy are discussed in politics.
"We're not talking about how we support these young people into ensuring that they are able to make those good decisions.
"Instead, we seem to be focused on punishment, and I don't think that is beneficial when it comes to the evidence, but it also very clearly is about politicians operating from a soundbite media environment.
"The evidence doesn't sound nice in a soundbite. The evidence is complicated, it is crunchy, and it's going to take bold political willpower."
Also speaking to Breakfast this morning, People Against Prisons Aotearoa (PAPA) spokesperson Emmy Rākete said ACT's plans have "topped the cake" for "absurd policies".
"We're seeing some really absurd policies," she said.
"This idea that we should start putting more children in prison is making the world a better place."
The advocacy group has launched a campaign called Care not Cages which aims to "ask politicians and the Government to be serious about dealing with social harm".
"To stop posturing like you're the 'tough on crime superman' and actually proposing serious practical solutions to the issues everyday people face in this country".
Justice advocate Awatea Mita said that locking 17 year olds up is likely to cause more re-offending.
"I think that mostly what victims want and what people want is for crime to stop, but when we look at our prisons, that's not what's happening.
"Inside the prison, young people will get exposed to more criminal techniques, they'll get exposed to violence, and they may come out of there more violent than when they came in."
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