"It's like you're stuck in a situation where there's no help coming."
That's Apanui Koopu's description of what it's like to be in debt to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). Koopu owes almost $20,000 due to his relationship being considered "in the nature of marriage", as MSD refers to it.
Koopu said the debt is "very stressful" and amounted to $20 out of his income each week.
"Today, $20 is a lot of money, with the price of everything, I honestly can't afford it."
He said families were "suffering".
"It's not getting any better, it's getting worse."
There is a fresh plea for the Government to wipe the debt once and for all. (Source: 1News)
Koopu is one of seven people who were interviewed for a report, released today, which calls on the Government to wipe beneficiary debt.
The report — called Lifting the Weight — was released by a collaborative group of anti-poverty organisations, led by Fairer Future.
Report author Max Harris said he had encountered a number of people who have $20 or $30 deducted per week.
"That's money that people really need, which suddenly changes and puts people into a really desperate situation."
The report quoted a Cabinet paper that said in 2020 about one in 10 New Zealanders — more than 461,000 people — had debt with MSD.
The average level of debt owed by each person in debt was $3550.
Harris said he believed the number of people in debt would have grown since then due to the cost of living crisis and the impacts of Cyclone Gabrielle and the Auckland floods.
Anti-poverty campaigner Brooke Stanley Pao said the stories in the report repeatedly mentioned shame associated with beneficiary debt.
"The shame of not even being able to visit the dentist or go to the doctor's, pay for your kids' uniforms — and the stigma... not only just with debt but the wider issue of experiencing poverty, and what that does in terms of your own well-being and self-esteem.
"We've linked money to our self worth, and if you have money you feel really powerful and secure, and if you don't you feel really insecure and small in the world."
Stanley Pao said wiping the debt would be "transformational".
"We know it puts a lot of stress on people.
"It would be incredible to uplift this and take this weight of families and communities so that they don't help to feel this unnecessary burden, and shame, and stigma.
"If you're here, then you have the right to be here and you have the right to have everything that you need for yourself and your family to thrive."
She said it was about "honouring the right for everyone to exist" and it was "nowhere near good enough" the Government had ruled out wiping the debt.
"They need to be held accountable and they should do better... especially given Labour has the mandate to do that... they talked big on being transformational and we're still waiting to see that."
Earlier today on Breakfast, Stanley Pao said MSD operated on a "low trust model" and the culture was "extremely toxic".
In Monday's post-Cabinet press conference, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins said the Labour government had overseen in welfare had a "significant" scale.
"There's been a lot of extra support put in to some of our most vulnerable families — significant increases in the overall level of [benefits], for example.
"A lot of extra support has gone in to some of our lowest income families and I'm really proud of the work that we've done."
He said it was "not a job done" however — "there's always going to be more to do".
Asked if MSD had a toxicity problem, Hipkins said "no, not at all".
"There have been periods in the past where people have gone into an MSD office and perhaps not found it as welcoming as it should be, and have found that they've had to battle for the support that they are entitled to. I don't think that would be a common complaint associated with an MSD office now."
'Responsibility' to pay back debts - National
National Party social development spokeswoman Louise Upston said National, if elected in October, would not wipe MSD debt.
She said if it did, there would be some "hardworking New Zealanders" who had paid down their own debts who would "find that challenging".
Anti-poverty campaigner Brooke Stanley Pao told Breakfast that wiping all MSD debt is the best way to support those struggling with the cost of living. (Source: Breakfast)
"Challenging circumstances don't just occur for those on low incomes."
Upston said she understood how difficult it could be on a benefit and she had compassion for that, but there were still responsibilities people had to meet, whether they were beneficiaries or not, and paying down debts was one of them.
However, she said in circumstances where beneficiaries went into debt because of MSD overpayments, despite the beneficiary advising it of new circumstances, then MSD needed to modernise and improve its systems to keep up.
Upston said she was worried by benefit "advances" which plunged people into debt.
She said the National Party was focused on finding ways to help people avoid debt, and finding ways to support them to pay them off.
Green Party social development spokesman Ricardo Menéndez March said thousands of people were struggling to pay bills and "put food on the table".
"Wiping debt to MSD would help people cover the essentials, protect against predatory lenders and give people the freedom and resources to do what is right for their communities.
"Even pre-pandemic people struggling to make ends meet were already trapped in a cycle of debt with the very agencies that are supposed to support them."
He said wiping the debt would "put money back into the hands of people on the lowest incomes and give them dignity to live without unnecessary debt holding them back".
SHARE ME